Transcript of CMP Video: Lisa Harris Conversation

This is a transcript of one of the videos leaked from the National Abortion Federation convention. These videos were recorded in secret by David Daleiden

The National Abortion Federation filed suit to keep all the videos taped at their conference away from the public, but an individual unaffiliated with the Center for Medical Progress leaked them.

I have composed this transcript after listening to the video. It may not be accurate in every detail. Here is the video below, transcript.This video is of a conversation between David Daleiden and Lisa Harris, a late-term abortionist.


D: David Daleiden

H: Abortionist Lisa Harris

O: David’s Assistant, a 2nd undercover pro-lifer


D: so your, at your facility, how late in gestation do you…

H: 19 and 6 right now

19 week unborn baby
19 week unborn baby

D: to 19 and 6?

H: but, just because of other changes, we’re probably going to inch that up but it’ll be gradual. We don’t have a big volume of big cases.

D: oh really?

H: yeah.

D: okay.

H: what you mostly looking for?

D: We, so there’s kind of 3 basic intake questions, or kind of checkboxes… The 1st is how late you go… and because all kinds of scientists –

H: did you go to Northland Family Planning at all?

D: no, we haven’t even met them yet.

H: because we send them out [inaudible] – they’re here.… We send our… We send our family planning fellows out there… because they go all the way up to 24 weeks and they have a much bigger volume of later cases.

D: yeah, were very new literally, the past…

D:…So  generally it’s the mid to later 2nd  tri [trimester] tissues that’s in demand.… Can’t be digged. because dig –

[I believe this means the babies can’t be injected with digoxin, which is used to stop the fetal heart and ensure the baby’s death. However, the drug also contaminates the tissues and makes them unsuitable for research.  In “dig” the slang word the ‘d’ is pronounced like in ‘edge’]

H: although Northland uses dig.

D: do you know when they start diging?

H: no.

D: no.…

H: our hospital uses dig

D: yeah, um, dig just nukes the stem cells, but that’s excellent, that you’re not using-… And the 3rd is patient volume. As far as your 2nd tri cases, like approximately per week

H: it really varies. I would say anywhere between 0 to 4, [late term abortions a week] but not over that.

D: 0 to 4? And with the affiliate that you’re working with, is there just one center or, how many…

H: there’s only one that does 2nd tri cases.

D: oh okay. So it’s kind of small.

H: but Northland family planning does more but they-

D: Interesting. Yeah. Oh ok.

H: so, um, I’m happy to talk more I’m not sure we’re-

D: yeah, I wasn’t sure, because it’s… I mean those are the 3 big, is the no dig, and then going into mid-2nd tri, and then volume, is-

H: what does it mean to you? from 20? From 18?

D: that means, to me that means from 16 to 22, anywhere within that range.

20-22 wks
20-22 wks

H: I mean, we have a few but not a lot

D: Yeah, ok,  So you would recommend North land family planning?

H: potentially. But I’m pretty sure they use dig for everybody

D: for everything, oh okay.

H: I can find out.

D: yeah… do you get pretty good cervical dilation when you do the 2nd tri?

H: mmhmm. We do with some of the procedures, yeah… Do you need things more intact?

D: it depends on, it depends on how dismembered, disarticulated it is, when it comes out, so the things that are most in demand are liver, thymus, and bone marrow right now, because, those are the 3 things that are used to construct the humanized mouse models now. I don’t know if you’re familiar with those –

H: not so much.

D: it’s really cool, they have, like mutant strains of mice that are bred to have no mouse immune system, they’re immunodeficient mice, and then they would graft human fetal liver, thymus, and bone marrow into the mouse, and then it, it actually, you know, grafts in, the cells continue to reproduce it actually constitutes a functional human immune system in the mouse model. Oh, they use that for drug testing, and for HIV AIDS research, and disease testing…

H: [looking over her shoulder at someone she wants to go talk to, possibly her daughter] She’s been a trooper, and has been totally waiting for me.

D: yeah, yeah, I can imagine

H: [inaudible] so what I’d love to do is, you know how  – did I give you one of my cards?

D: Uh, do you have a card on you?

H: I’m going to give you –

D: great.

H: and, I’m not sure if we’re going to turn out to be a, I am more interested…

D: yeah, depending on the –

H: I’m more interested actually in what we talked, what we talked about in terms of the more, sort of conceptual things that get in the way, and the research regulations that get in the way, so even if you can’t turn out to –

D: you mentioned something about regulations when I introduced myself yesterday. I forget what the-

H: Subpart B [possibly some part B] regulations …

D: is that some of the HHS things we got?

H: yeah.

D: yeah, cause yeah there’s all kinds of stuff when it, when it comes to it, if you’re an academic research you’re receiving federal funding or potentially state funding is, there’s all kinds of red tape and all over.

H: well that’s kind of where my interest in this is. Are women allowed to feel like there’s a greater good that came from their abortion, those are my things, and we kind of as a society we want, I don’t want, but we want people to feel bad about it, so –

D: right.

H: the idea that there would be some good, you know to come out of it,

D: absolutely

H: when someone says they don’t want to permit women to have that,

D: yeah, no

H: so that’s sort of where my interest is… So I’m happy to talk about whether we’re a worthwhile partner for you or not, but I’m more happy to talk about the federal general regulations that get in the in the way of doing this, of what socially we let women, what experiences we let them have in conjunction with their abortion,

O: right, right. And how we can talk about that, I think, more talk about it, seems to be, I listened to your talk yesterday on how we are marked with-

H: the conscience one?

O: yes, and about how that, that plays into the patient, and that’s, so that’s my –

H: yeah. So that interests me too. And I’m sorry need to go, my daughter has been waiting for the past 2 days for me. So I have to go… Bu I’m happy to talk about any of these things-

D: what you did in the past, was that with a dedicated procurement organization?

H: no, no. That was with individual researchers who needed, either decidual tissue, or fetal, they were tr- fetal orbits, you know, specific short-term research projects.

D: is there a standard specimen charge that you guys have?

H: no, they, honestly, they’ve never charged for specimens before.…

D: oh, oh good!

H: I don’t know what they would, if they were going to partner with a more commercial agency they probably would –

D: yeah

H: think about it.

D: does that have to go through the board for your affiliate, or how does it, who kind of makes the final –

H: our VP for medical affairs oversees all research…. all research projects pay for the effort, but it’s never been like a per specimen.

D: okay that’s not how they do it. Gotcha. No we typically, I mean we, we definitely return a portion of our research fees into physicians offices, and hospitals, and clinics that we work with. The standard right now I guess is, most organizations are paying per specimen so that’s what we’re kind of familiar with it, um, ..but whatever would work out-

H: they haven’t done it like that before but they’ve had sort, of grants to the agency to cover my time…

D: Gotcha

H. But not a specimen,,,

O: Thank you for your time.

Share on Facebook

Author: Sarah

Sarah Terzo is a writer for Live Action and a member of the board of The Pro-life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians and Consistent Life. She lives in NJ.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

− five = one