NAF Conference: Conversation between David Daleiden and abortionist Cheryl Chastine

This is a transcript of one of the videos leaked from the National Abortion Federation convention. These videos were recorded in secret by David Daleiden

The National Abortion Federation filed suit to keep all the videos taped at their conference away from the public, but an individual unaffiliated with the Center for Medical Progress leaked them.

I have composed this transcript after listening to the video. It may not be accurate in every detail. When I have been in doubt, I have inserted a question mark. There may be errors in this even though I did my best to be accurate.

This is a conversation that took place between an undercover David Daleiden, posing as a representative of a  fetal procurement company (offering to buy aborted baby’s bodies for research) and Dr. Cheryl Chastine, Witchita abortionist.


C: Cheryl Chastine

D: David Dalieden


D: so you’re a provider.

C: yes.

D: excellent. So where are you located?

C: I’m in Wichita, Kansas. At the women’s center.

D: oh wow. Isn’t that where, uh, George Tiller was –

C: yes.

D: wow.

C: yeah, so…

D: wow. Is that safe?

C: mostly.

D: mostly?

C: I mean, there’s some security measures involved around my being there, but… He was a target because of 3rd trimester procedures, and the legislature has made that essentially impossible since then, so…

D: okay

C: that’s not been an issue at this point. Aside from various people trying to ruin my career in order to close the clinic. [Inaudible]

D: I guess every provider has to deal with that.

C: pretty much, yeah. More for me I think because of the profile of the clinic because it’s new clinic.

D: right, right. Yeah. Well thank you for doing that.

C: thank you…

[They talk about the documentary “After Tiller” which portrayed 3rd trimester abortionist in a positive light]

7 month baby,. Babies this age were killed at Tiller's clinic, and by the abortionists featured in "After Tiiller"
7 month baby,. Babies this age were killed at Tiller’s clinic, and by the abortionists featured in “After Tiiller”

C: you know, what I, the main thing, what I felt was remarkable about the emotional, what’s involved with that in the film, is that it’s not any different for the later procedures than, it’s the same, it’s the same patient reasons, and the same range of patient reactions.… And kind of the same process as far as helping them come to terms with it.

D: yeah. So what is the range that you go up to now

C: up to 22 weeks. Kansas has one of those 20 week bans now so –

D: you go to 22. Because I don’t know how much you guys talked already, so the primary demand for the stem cell sourcing is for 2nd trimester, I mean you, oftentimes there will be researches want 1st tri, but generally speaking it 2nd tri.

From an abortion at 20 weeks.
From an abortion at 20 weeks.

C: yeah.

D: and generally speaking it’s a lot of liver, thymus and bone marrow is what people want –

C: interesting.

D: Yeah- are you just doing standard D & E?

C: yeah. D&E do digoxin.[?}

D. what? When you start diging” [injecting digoxin, a poison that stops the baby’s heart before the procedure]

C: we don’t.

D: Oh you don’t do dig.

C: no.

D: at all.

C: no.

A D&E procedure. Because her clinic doesn't use digoxin, Chastin dismembers the babies alive
A D&E procedure. Because her clinic doesn’t use digoxin, Chastin dismembers the babies alive

D: oh! That’s great. That’s really good… Dig just nukes the stem cells, right?

C: yeah, I’d imagine.

D: it’s no use afterwards. That’s excellent. And have you ever participated in tissue procurement or donation or anything like that?

C: no, we have not. Everything is going to, yeah, medical waste right now.

D: okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

C: so you are, we’d like to get –

D: definitely. Are you the medical director for the clinic?

C: yes.

D: so does it, do decisions like this, kind of, does the buck stop with you?

C: yeah.

D: okay.

C: I mean it’s my, it’s gonna be my call ultimately –

D: your call

C: yeah, my operations director is going to be the person you communicate with on it, but yes.

D: okay, okay. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. We return a portion of our research fees to the facilities that work with us so then that, is like kind of a thing

C: yeah great

D: to make up for our tech being in there some days, bumbling around the-

C: sure

D: the path lab. No really they shouldn’t be bumbling. But, yeah. Very good. I am, I didn’t realize there was a provider again in Wichita so that’s-

15 weeks
15 weeks

C: we’ve been open for a year in April, this so year, just had our one year…and we’re very proud of what we’ve been doing.

D: And what would you say your procedure volume is like?

C:  Um, at this point, I’m probably seeing 40-50 patients a week, of which maybe a third or less of that Is medication abortions so as far as, like, the types of procedures your talking about, probably two to four seventeen plus week procedures-

D: per week-

C: Yeah, which just really varies from week to week. Probably you know, up to six I think and then the fourteen to sixteen there are more of those.

D: Oh yeah, that sounds very promising. do you generally get pretty good cervical dilation? What’s kind of percent intact as far as the- I know it probably varies but –

C:  Um, that depends on whether I do, cause sometimes I do same day, I do, depending on where the patient lives, they’re overnight laminaria or same day [inaudible] so the same day obviously I get less dilation usually

D: Right

C: but the tradeoff in patient convenience is so great that

D:  Oh, yeah there was a real interesting preconference workshop on that a day ago. And um you know, we’re not doctors,

C: right

D: I’m a scientist, but not a-

C: Yeah.

D: But I’m not a medical doctor, so it was real neat to see the, you know, kind of the level of discourse of the new techniques or proposals being kind of piloted, and even some kind of the discussion and even some pushback from some of the older fighters it was a real dynamic kind of, I didn’t realize there was that level of, I don’t know what to call it, I want to say, it was very thorough, you know? To have that many minds coming together to just pick apart all the different aspects of their craft so so it was very [inaudible]…

C: a lot of people very opinionated

D: yeah.

C: and very opposite directions, and they’re all convinced based on their clinical experience…

D: yeah, I’m giving a nice version of it… There were 2 providers who almost jumped down the speaker’s throat… What do you mean!!…

C: I’m going to go with Warren Hern and I don’t know who the other one –

D: actually, it was some guy from Colorado and his name was not Hern, and Doctor Hansen’s daughter, Mildred Hansen, they were like this little tagteam in the back.…

D: it was very good to meet you

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Author: Sarah

Sarah is a member of the board of The Pro-life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians.

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